sailboat cockpit rail seats

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How to Make Your Own Stern Pulpit Rail Seat

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Build Your Own Stern Rail Seat From Starboard

Stern rail seats have become so popular over the last decade or so that most new sailboats large enough to support a stern pulpit now have them built in. Rail seats are perfect for a crew or guest who wants a clearer view ahead than you can get from the cockpit benches or for someone who simply wants to keep out of the way of winches, sheets and lines, and the crews' sailing or racing activities. Plus it's just plain fun to sit high up on the stern.

Several companies make stock or custom-sized rail seats that can be retrofitted to older boats. You can expect to pay $200 or more for a commercial seat, or you can build your own for a fraction of that. It's probably easier than you think.

Starboard is the best material for crafting your own seat. Starboard is a plastic with many marine uses, available in planks or sheets of different sizes and colors. The half-inch size, used in the seat shown here, is plenty strong for a rail seat. Starboard is strong and waterproof and will last practically forever. You can saw, drill, and sand it just like wood. The only disadvantage is that it cannot be glued, which doesn't matter for this project. Starboard can be ordered online and from the big marine chandleries.

The most important step in this project is the first: designing the size and shape of the seat itself to fit on your boat's railing. You could go with a straightforward boxy design that fits the space, or you can go for a more artistic or finished look that simulates the commercial seats. Be sure to consider where the sitting person's feet will go, and arrange the seat's position so that the sitter can lean against the upper rail. For the design of the seat shown in this photo, I simply walked around the docks looking at different seats until I found one I liked and that would fit my rail well. I asked the boat owner for permission to trace the seat, which he freely granted, admitting what he'd paid for the seat (about five times what the materials for my own cost). I liked the shape of this seat in part because of the space for the built-in cup holder, always a handy thing near the cockpit.

I then transferred the pattern to a sheet of starboard, cut out the shape with a jigsaw, and rounded and smoothed the edges with a belt sander. Then it was time to mount it.

Mounting the Stern Rail Seat

Typically a stern rail seat needs three points of attachment to be stable and feel solid. If the corner bend in the rail is close enough to 90 degrees, it may work to attach the seat on the rail only, but with a wider angle, as on the boat shown here, a leg is likely needed along with two or more rail mounts.

As you can see in this photo, the mounting hardware is very simple, and you can fashion your own design or use fittings like those shown here. For a little more money you can use stainless steel to match your rails, but these under-seat fixtures are seldom seen anyway, so there's nothing wrong with galvanized steel for the leg (hardware plumbing department) and nylon rail clamps. Cup holders are cheap; simply cut out the right size hole and fit it in, held in place with an epoxy intended for plastics.

The entire construction and installation process takes only about an hour, and your new stern seat will likely become one of the most often used parts of your boat.

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SternPerch Sailboat Cockpit Seats Comfortable and Durable! 

Sternperch Sailboat Seats

Look At What Customers Say

Even better than expected

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Deborah Hughes of Rochester, NY | September 2019

" Bought the Stern Perches for our 1985 Ericson 32-3. Took just a few minutes to cut the support legs to size, and no interference with lazarette doors! Love the new view. "

GENE BARNES of VA | Catalina | October 2018

" Ok, everything looks great new. I put the perch seats/ rail covers and peek-a-boo blinds in 2 years ago. Wish I had the perch seats years ago. With 5/6 adults under sail, these seat are the favorite, and expand the cockpit room. Covers easily slip off for cleaning. "

Best seats on the boat

Glen Brumbaugh of Annapolis, MD | Beneteau First 38s5 (1990) | May 2017

" I put these seats on the boat between 15-20 years ago, so this is a quite belated review. After all of these years, the seats still look great. They are my favorite seat in the cockpit. Up a little higher for a better view. On many a long reach, I have sat in the seat for hours while steering with my foot. Probably one of the best "bang for the buck" improvements I have made.

What has made them really comfortable are the rail cushions. These are what you back will lean against, so they both look great and are highly functional.

The installation was easy and the seats were a perfect fit, including around an existing support stanchion. I had to modify one of the seats later when I installed a hoist mounted to the port rail, and that modification came out looking fine, so the seats can be customized after installation (if required). "

SternPerch Cockpit Seats Are Made From Marine Grade Polymers And Are UV Inhibited & Weather Resistant

Boat Description Annotations:

rk  = [ r ail  k it] Boat has only one rail. Rail Kit is needed for 2nd rail.

ca  = [ c ustomer  a ssist] Customer will position and cut the support leg to proper length.

pt = [pattern] Customers pattern of proposed seat.

SternPerch seats have been installed on the list of boats contained in the menu to the left.

We do not have pictures of all boats. If you own SternPerch seats, and there is no picture available in our list, please send us one and we will get it posted.

If your boat is not listed, CLICK HERE for instructions on how you can help us custom make a seat for your boat at no addition charge.

Only one rail, no problem. Our RAIL KIT will allow you to attach SternPerch seats to your "NEW" lower rail.

Want even more comfort? Order Stern Rail Cushions .

To Order Sternperch Sailboat Seats Click Here

Seat Design Information Seats are designed to rotate up...

• If the support leg rests on a lazarette.
• If the seat impedes easy access to a cleat or other items.  

To see pictures of some of the boats with Sternperch seats Click Here .

Recommended weight limit is 250 lbs. per seat.

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Add extra seating aboard your sailboat.  With the SternPerch Cockpit Seat

Fits Many Sailboat Manufacturers!

Manufacturer Bavaria Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau First Beneteau Moorings Beneteau Moorings Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Beneteau Oceanis Bombay Clipper Bristol Buccaneer Buccaneer Buccaneer C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & C C & L Express Cal Cal Cal Cal Caliber Caliber Caliber Caliber Cape Dory Cape Dory Cape Dory Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Catalina Capri Challenger Cheoy Lee Choe Lee Choe Lee Columbia Columbia Columbia Compac Compac CS CS CS CS CY Dehler Dufor Elite Elite Endeavour Endeavour Endeavour Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Ericson Espress Feeling Freedom Freedom Freedom Frers Gulfstar Hanse Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Hunter Cutter Hunter Legend Hunter Vision Hylas Hylas Hylas Irwin Irwin Citation Irwin Citation Island Packet Island Packet Island Packet Island Packet Island Packet Island Packet Island Packetcat Islander Islander Islander Islander Islander Islander Islander Bahama J-Boats J-Boats J-Boats Jeanneau Jeanneau Jeanneau Jeanneau Jeanneau (non DS) Jeanneau DS Jeanneau DS Kelly Patterson Kettenberg Kirie Kirie Laguna Lancer Lancer Lancer Lancer Power Sail Lancer Power Sail Mariner Max 95 MayFlower Morgan Newport Newport Newport Niagra Nonsuch O-Day O-Day O-Day O-Day O-Day O-Day Olson Pace Ship Pacific SeaCraft Pacific SeaCraft Pacific SeaCraft Pacific SeaCraft Packet Cat Pearson Pearson Pearson Pearson Pearson Pearson Pearson Pearson S-2 S-2 S-2 Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre Sabre San Juan Santana Santana Seafarer Seidleman Soveriegn Soveriegn Stevens Sun Oddisy Tartan Tartan Tartan Tartan Tartan Tartan Tartan Tartan Tayana Tayana Cutter TMI Valiant Valiant Vet Victory Catamaran Vindo Watkins Watkins Whitby Yamaha Yamaha Yamaha  

Model 36 F35 F38 F405 m405 32 33.7 36s7 37 40cc 40s7 40.7 42 42cc 43 44cc 44.7 46 47.7 47.7 49 50 50 323 325 331 343 352 373 375 393 400 411 423 473 28.5 32s5 35s5 38s5 42s7 305 310 345 38 432 36cc 281 300 311 321 350 351 370 381 390 430 440 461 31 38.8 33 33 320 27 30 33 33 34 35 36 37 38 110 115 121 36 27 28-2 28 31 33 34 35 40 28 30 33 25 27 27 28 28 30V-1 30V-2 30V-2 34V-1 34V-2 34V-3 36V-1 36V-2 36V-3 36 38 42V-1 42V-2 26 32 36 41 44 8.7 9.6 27 27 mII 27 30 34 36 40 41 36 325 32 364 35 40cc 42 26 26 27 32 34 34 35 35 38 34 326 28 30 35 39 50 341 26.5 27 28 28.5 30 30 33 33.5 34 35 35.5 37.5 40 45 37 37 32 44 46 46 35 31 32 27 29 35 38 40 485 35 28 30 30 36 36 36 28 29 30 105 34 36.2 37.1 39i 43 40 43 44 32 32 37 30 28 36 38 27 30 36 32 48 44cc 33 40 41 35 30 34 35 39 40 302 322 911-s 23 23 24 32 34 35 26 30 31 34-V#1 34-V#2 36 39 39 27 30 36 28 30 30 MKIII 32 34 34V-1 34 34V-2 36 38 280 362 386 402 426 29 30 3030 30 30 28 30 47 40.3 28 31 34C 37 41 3400 3700 4400 37 37 37 32 42 30 35 30 33 38 45 25II 26c 305

Year 2003 1982 ca 1982+ 1988 ca 1993+ 1983 ca 2002 pt 1991 ca 2008 1995+ 1998+ 2004+ 1984 ca 2002+ pt 2008 1994+ 2004+ 2008 2000+ 2001 2008 1995+ 1997 2004+ 1987 ca 2000+ 2005 pt 1997+ 2004+ 1986+ 2002+ 1993+ 1998+ 2005 2001+ 1989+ 1989+ 1989+ 1989+ 1994+ 1987+ 1991+ 1984+ 1989 ca 1986 1989+ 1996+ 1989+ 1998+ 1995+ 1989+ 1997+ 1991+ 1997+ 1993+ 1989+ 1992+ 1997+ 1976 ca 1984 ca 1979 1979 ca 1976 ca 1984 rk 1972 rk 1979 ca 1986 ca 1980 ca 1981 1979 ca 1983 1981 ca 2006 pt 2006 2000 1979 1986 ca 1986 1986 ca 1982 1989 1969 rk 1997 1998? 1983 ca 1985 1981 1978 rk 1977 rk 1980+ 1985-91 1991+ pt 1979-87 1987-88 1988+ 1986-88 1988+ 1990+ 1982-89 1989-90 1990+ 1996 1980+ 1990-91 1992+ 1991+ 1972 ca 1976 1997 1979 1979 ca 1976 ca 1979 ca 1988 rk 1996 ca 1984+ 1991 ca 1980 ca 1986 ca 1979 2002 2006 pt 1985 1987 ca 1984+ 1984 1985 1980 rk 1988 rk 1973 rk 1986 1987 1989 1986 ca 2002 ca 1984 1997 1990 ca 1980 ca 1987 ca 1997 1987 ca 1978 ca 2003 ca 1987+ 1976 rk 1988+ 1984+ 1988-90 1990+ 1979+ 1989+ 1983+ 1987-89 pt 1989 1990+ 1984+ 1986 1987+ pt 1986-90 1989+ 1989 1997 2003 ca 1989 1984 1987 ca 1985+ 1990+ pt 1989+ 1986+ 1993+ 2003 1994 pt 1975-76 1975-76 1980+ pt 1975-79 ca 1979-85 1983-85 ca 1981 ca 1983+ 1980+ 1992+ 1986+ 1996+ 1996+ 2008 2002 2001 2003 1981 ca 1977+ 1983 1998 1987 ca 1976-84 ca 1978-85 ca 1978-85 ca 1984 1979 ca 1979 ca 1976 ca 1981 ca 1989 1985 rk 1973+ 1973+ 1978 ca 1987 ca 1981-84 1984-89 1982-85 ca 1985-89 ca 1988 ca 1975-82 1986 ca 1975 ca 1975 ca 1985+ 1992+ 1984-95 1994 1975-83 rk 1973 rk 1987-91 1983-85 rk 1985-95 1973-91 ca 1981-87 1986-91 1985 1987-86 1985 ca 1983 ca 1979-91 ca 1986 ca 1985 1982 1982 ca 1987 1987 ca 1984-91 1983 ca 1982 ca 1994 ca 2007 1996 ca 2004 ca 1988 ca 1975 rk 1983-90 1979 ca 1984 ca rk 1984 ca 1984 1984 ca 2000 ca 1988 ca 1988 1969 rk 2002 1998 2006 1998+ 2005 1981 1982 1981 ca 1993+ 1993+ 1987 ca 2001 1986 1984 ca 1984 1970 ca 1992 ca 1986 1988 ca

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• sailboat Models
• sailboat 37.1 SUN ODSY shallow draft

Stern Rail Seats

"The finest improvement to my boat, for the least amount of money. I recommend Stern Perch seats to everybody." - Judy Farrington, Newport, RI 1990 Hunter 30

• Copyright 1998-2024 SB Owners, LLC. All rights reserved.

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STERNPERCH Sailboat Seats

All Seats are made at time of order.

• All seats come with integrated drink holders.
• Enhanced view from cockpit.
• Easily removed for racing.
• E very ones favorite seat.
• Additional cockpit seating for 2 extra people
• Please allow about 2 weeks for delivery.

You get the Following

1 pair of Sternperch Seats

1 pair of White Drink Holder Inserts

1 pair of base flanges and legs

All necessary installation hardware

Here is a list of Boats we made Stern Perch Seats for and to see some pictures click here

IF WE DO NOT HAVE YOUR BOAT LISTED SternPerch   PATTERN MAKING INSTRUCTIONS

WE ALSO OFFER Stern Rail and Life Line Cushions Click Here

Only one Stern Rail, here is a solution The Rail Kit

Note: All Sternperch Seats are custom made at time of order, Quantity In Stock will show 0

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Since 1997, the internet's oldest and largest sailboat cockpit cushion source

Easy measuring (if required)

Guaranteed to fit.

• Copyright 1998-2024 SB Owners, LLC. All rights reserved.

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Attainable Adventure Cruising

The Offshore Voyaging Reference Site

• Cockpits—Part 2, Visibility and Ergonomics

There are few areas on any boat that are used for more diverse tasks than an offshore sailboat cockpit. Everything from lounging on a quiet day at anchor to handling a fast-moving emergency at sea with a bunch of sail up…in the black dark…with a ship bearing down on us.

Given that, picking a boat with a good cockpit layout is one of the most important parts of boat selection.

It’s also one of the hardest to get right, because we will inspect most prospective boats at the wharf or mooring where features supporting lounging will be a lot more obvious than features that will work offshore at oh-dark-thirty when it’s blowing stink and the yogurt’s flying.

And, further, many of us will have to make this decision without a lot, or maybe any, offshore experience, one of the reasons I strongly recommend making an offshore passage with someone else before buying a cruising boat.

That said, I can provide a cockpit selection framework to make this process easier based on the thousands—literally, I did some back-of-the-envelope estimating—of hours I have spent on watch, mostly offshore, in all weathers, in sailboat cockpits.

To further set the parameters, I’m going to focus on cockpits optimized for one to four people. This is important to make clear since full-crew racing-optimized cockpits will be very different.

Also, keep in mind that this is just one article among many that I have written about boat selection, so, for example, I have already explored main traveler positioning options, and won’t cover that again here.

As usual I will use the Outbound 44/46, the Boréal boats, our own Morgan’s Cloud, and a couple of others to illustrate each point.

Let’s dig in:

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Hi John, Agree on all counts. The cockpit can be completely revealing of the intentions of the designer and what he/she thinks of the target audience/users. Nowhere else on a boat are the compromises that go into boat design so apparent. And, with your article in hand, these intentions can be read like a book. And your suggestion of offshore experience can’t be overstated (perhaps a good imagination and lots of coastal cruising experience could come close): most of us have a good sense of what makes us comfortable while having little initial idea what works (or doesn’t work) for the various fire drills that a good cockpit layout facilitates. A question: any thoughts on the tinted windows on the Outbound pictured. My guess is that they degrade visibility in marginal conditions and at night, but have no idea how much or whether an issue. I think I would want clear panes and use another method to cut back on sun intensity when needed. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Thanks for confirmation on that from someone. who has spent a lot of time offshore in a cockpit.

As to the tinting on the Outbound windows, I don’t know. What I can say is that the actual amount of tint is much less than the photo would indicate, so I’m guessing that it would not be much of a problem, if at all. The other good thing is that if unsure of what we are seeing, we can always stand up and look over.

Hi John, The overly huge steering wheel comes from fully crewed racing boats, of course, where the helm stays behind the wheel at all times. Putting this solution on cruising boats is like putting a huge Formula One wing on a family car. Maybe it feels cool, but it just doesn’t work the same way. Essentially it’s quite silly and as described here, it can destroy the functionality of the cockpit, even if all else is perfect.

Lately an interesting solution to this problem, an alternative to one huge wheel or twin wheels, has been presented by Danish Jefa, the worlds biggest in yachting steering systems. As an example, they are the maker of the autopilot drive units sold as B&G, Simrad, Garmin, and many more.

They now have a “Pendular steering pedestal”. The pedestal and wheel moves between 3 positions, centre and each side. This makes a 0,8 metre wheel do the job of a 2,5 metre wheel. One can sit on the suitable side of the cockpit or stand in the centre, while never blocking movement in the cockpit. The pedestal has a foot pedal that releases it from its position. When it reaches the next it locks in automatically.

I’ve seen a boat with this system, but never tried sailing with it. It looks well made and reportedly works as well as it looks. Some new models have this as a standard solution. https://jefa.com/steering/products/cable/WP900/wp900.htm

I agree, that offering from Jefa looks like a great idea. That said, like you, I would need to try it out to be sure.

Another benefit I just though of is that it could make fitting a practical emergency tiller much more practical than with a centre line wheel where the tiller is usually too short because it must clear the binnacle.

I would need convincing that this Jefa wheel could be adequately anchored to the floor. The fixing plate is very short fore and aft. The binnacle is a massively important strong point. I know of a wheel bent by helmsman’s body whose ribs were cracked when a wave came in over the stern in overfalls. From the brochure this looks only good for inshore boats.

Hi Richard,

You may easily be right. I have never even seen one, so no opinion.

Hi Richard, I’ve seen one and “tested” it, but as mentioned, not actually sailed with it, so I’m definitely not informed well enough to evaluate this. Still, FWIW, it felt good. Seemed just as stable as normal. There is a slight bit of fore and aft movement, if you try to do just that. While steering I think it will not at all move that way. There was no sideways wobble. I could not notice any difference in friction. Feels very direct.

When it comes to impact strength, I agree that it would probably not hold up if the boat hits a rock and the helm gets thrown towards it. I’m pretty sure that the deck plate will not break, but that part of the boat will. The leverage is just too much for normal laminates etc. However, i’ve seen binnacles collapse in that situation too. Perhaps it would be better if the mounting plate was bigger. I think so.

Still I don’t know if it should be made strong enough to take the above mentioned loads. As you mention, people can get hurt by such situations. Perhaps it’s better if the first object you hit does flex quite a bit to reduce the blow. I don’t know what to think about it. I’m nerdy enough to prefer tillers anyway…. 🙂

Hi, this sort of tilting binnacle has already been tried on aluminium boats: http://www.jfandre.com/2015_innovations.htm Not sure it’s worth the added complexity.

By the way, the cockpit layout of the new Boreal 44.2 is now public : https://www.boreal-yachts.com/portfolio/le-boreal-44/ (and, in my uninformed opinion, looks like a great solution)

Yes, Boreal sent me the renderings a bit before Christmas. I can’t say it would be my boat, or cockpit, much prefer the 44.1. I also worry that the 44.2 is too much volume for her length. Still, seems like that’s what the market wants. To me the Mk 1s were pure offshore boats, the Mk 2s, more marketing and sales driven designs.

I wonder what you think of the Amel’s? From what I have seen on video from Delos and others it seems to me that when steering you have to unzip the section above you and stand. Away from the wheel I’m guessing it is not possible to see above the roof without standing on a cockpit seat.

Sorry, reread that and it wasn’t very clear. On an Amel I think we only way to get a view without looking through glass is to zip open above the wheel and stick your head out. Is that adequate?

Hi Dave, a quick comment from a user perspective, we have a Beneteau 473 with a custom hard dodger. This provides excellent all-round visibility from the cockpit. When conditions and visibility are poor, my experience is that looking through a windscreen coated with something like Rain-X is no better or worse than squinting and blinking as you try and keep a look-out with the naked eye – and this view is from keeping watch on yachts and big ships. The only thing that really works when things are wild, is a clear view screen and who has that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_view_screen

If conditions are fine, we stand on the cockpit seat and look out over the dodger, not for visibility (which is as good or better through our lightly tinted window) but for the enjoyment of, and feel for, the breeze and conditions that you don’t get closeted behind plexiglass. Br. Rob

Nice, thanks. Our Rival 38 has the difference that the wheel is at the forward end of the cockpit. Similar to an Amel. As nothing opens in the front half of our wheelhouse we don’t get the extra visibility/sensory options when steering by hand at present.

Glass is way better than plastic, particularly if coated with Rain-X, as Rob suggests, particularly if you can get your face really close to it to eliminate any reflections.

That said I really do like to be able to get a clear view without anything at all intervening. I disagree a bit with Rob on this one.

I used to commute to an Island in all weathers and all seasons in a small motor boat with a hard dodger and glass windows coated with Rain-X, but I still found it useful to stick my head out the side when trying to sort out exactly what I was seeing on a black night, even with driving spray and rain.

The other benefit of this is having a listen. Two summers ago I was nearly run down by another sailboat, even though I was sounding a very loud horn every 2 minutes. They should have heard me, but didn’t because they were all buttoned up in a cockpit enclosure.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/08/24/dont-alter-course-to-port/

Summary, I think it important to be able to get clear of whatever enclosure you have to take a look and listen. This, by the way, is, I think, some of the reason big ships have open bridge wings.

So, I would evaluate the Amel by that criteria.

Thanks John. we had a bit of a design brainstorm about our own wheelhouse last night. Long term we already planned to make changes to improve ventilation (nothing opens at present, going to cook in the tropics). Plus it is a big angular and ugly at present.

Compared to us the Amel gains both head out visibility and ventilation but also offers better communication with the foredeck eg when anchoring/reefing. So we are looking at an option that gives us the possibility of open view when standing while changing as little as possible.

So thinking we cut the top 200mm off the front 3 windows, top them with an aftwards shelf (need to check head clearance for companionway but guess 150 or 200mm deep) and then vertical, opening windows at the aft edge of the shelf to the roof (keep existing roof as an overhang to give significant eyebrow for rain protection when the vertical windows are open).

So we can stand with an open view (very much as Phyllis is in the 5th picture above). Our “shelf” can have a good handhold fitted right across the length of it.

If it were me going through that much surgery on the dog house, I would simply reduce it’s hight so you can look over it when standing, and then add one or two small hatches in the top for ventilation. The Outbound 46 and our boat are set up this way and, after tens of thousands of miles including many high latitude voyages, I have found it works very well: good shelter when sitting, and great visibility and situation awareness when standing: https://www.morganscloud.com/2008/06/01/hard-dodger-for-morgans-cloud/

Then, if you want full coverage of the cockpit, go with a soft enclosure attached to a bimini top, that can be rolled up or down depending on circumstances: https://www.morganscloud.com/category/deck/cockpit-enclosure/

Thanks John,

I think we are looking at much the same thing.

One way of looking at our plans is to see the existing wheelhouse roof becoming the bimini (albeit currently with one section of solid sides) and the cut-down windscreen with “shelf” becoming the dodger (that you can look over when standing) with an opening windscreen between them.

You have your windscreen connecting the bimini to dodger at the forward end of the dodger top. We were thinking of putting it at the aft end. Our thinking is that makes reaching it to open from inside easier and uses the bimini as an eyebrow to keep rain off so improving visibility. If this section is going to be open in storm conditions the extra wind capture of the eyebrow won’t matter.

The work would strengthen the forward supports for the dodger and bimini (currently the window frames are the main support) and allow us to reduce the slab-sided and angular appearance of the grp dodger base. The aft supports are much better implemented and in good condition.

The existing enclosure was really only for boatyard use (one-piece almost impossible to put up from inside) so we will be sewing a replacement (mostly windows in several zipped sections) with better attachments. That will allow flexibility as to which panels are open or closed.

Between the bimini roof window which does provide a good view of the mainsail and the solar panels we probably have room for one small opening hatch.

Even with the current rather inadequate front supports we have been on board, in a quite exposed position in the boatyard, through several named storms (which funnel through the Menai Strait) from both forward and aft. No movement – of the wheelhouse anyway, everything else was shaking 🙂 So at least we know 50+mph winds are ok.

I suspect much of the issues around cockpit design are related to the intended market. Some of the issues you mention are issues for any boat that leaves the dock while others are only issues for boats that are sailed offshore. I am not someone who subscribes to the idea that any old boat above 30′ can be made suitable for offshore use and cockpits are just one more example of where I see important differences.

It is probably no secret that I think most boat designs are immature like proof of concept prototypes not product designs and a few things you have highlighted speak to this. The first and most obvious sign that a design was not fully detailed, there is not proper assembly documentation and/or the builder lacks proper materials management is that most boats show an amazing mishmash of fasteners that clearly show the assemblers were going and grabbing what was handy to put it together rather than having it kitted. Digging deeper though, you see much more troubling trends. Dodgers is one area where you can see how immature the design is, very few designers/builders put in any provisions for a dodger yet the majority of the boats, regardless of use case, will install one within the first year. Since the designer has not considered this, it means that rope clutches, winches, instruments, etc are all in places that can be badly compromised by one of these solutions. Interestingly, for all of their other faults, some of the big production boatbuilding companies do better in some of these regards as they realize much bigger economies of scale and actually realize that it pays to complete the design (heck, Beneteau have integrated dodgers in some of their designs these days, I don’t like how they have done it but bravo for doing it and I know that they at least have a proper BOM for their boats).

In an ideal world where all incentives are right, I think that basically all cruising boats (yes, including coastal cruisers) would have a factory option of a bolt on hard dodger. By having a single design, the designer could work in CAD to check sightlines, lay out hardware, etc and then a mockup could be built to double check this and in the end, it would all have good usability. Given how rarely people actually take down a soft dodger, hard dodgers are superior for probably 90% of owners and you could always not order it or unbolt it if you want to truck over the road or go racing or whatever. Maybe I am the only one who dreams about such things.

By the way, I think that your points are a bit of a mix of requirements and specifications. Something like visibility I see as a requirement while I see cockpit size as a specification as it is one way to meet the root requirements. The actual requirements for cockpit size are things like how many people can be seated, ability to move around, weight when flooded, etc. 

I agree, although I’m not generally a fan of their boats, Beneteau have done some great work in design and standardization.

The other way a boat can end up with a really well engineered cockpit is a combination of experience, iteration, simplicity and staying on mission.

Morgan’s Cloud has the best cockpit I have ever sailed in, Perfect? No, but close.

I’m guessing the reason is that Jim McCurdy had done a lot of sailing offshore himself (a rarity with designers) and he kept it simple with the single mission of sailing efficiency the guiding principle. For example, if you don’t bring the lines from the mast aft, and don’t try and add a fixed dining room table in the middle of things, it gets way easier to have a good design. And then if you have drawn and then sailed on a bunch of boats like Jim had when he designed MC, you get better and better, particularly if your a bit crusty and tend to dig your heals in about the important stuff, as Jim also did.

I also agree on the desirability of hard dodgers as standard. That said, there are benefits to the hard/soft approach we have too. More coming on that.

Hi John and all, I would like to suggest that, when underway, there can be too much cockpit protection. There is something to be said for being a little uncomfortable. The on-watch crew should always be harnessed up and dressed to go to the foredeck. Much of the time, this is layers with full foul weather gear, especially at night. Cockpit protection can tempt one to underdress. Moreover, good watch keeping means you have good contact with the elements: eyes not blinded by reading, at least one ear not blocked with ear buds, not “zipped in”, and with easy access to the outside world for a clear look-around. Like many comfort and labor savings devices for the sailing community: the increased physical ease brought by cockpit protection is offset by an increased demand for mental diligence and discipline. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Dick, I’m not sure one rule for all situations and climates works. For example Coastal areas vs mid ocean. Tropics vs high attitudes. Weather conditions. What equipment you have. etc etc.

I would concur. We have a pilothouse helm and an aft deck “sailing” helm, which is not really so comfortable, but is quite safe with plenty of places to tether to (and from). If we are actively steering, we stand in what isn’t much bigger than a footwell, but which has six winches to hand, three a side. We can look forward across the pilothouse roof and nothing is blocking our view aft or to either side, although I am considering weather cloths for the spring as it will be pretty brisk here in April, I think. But there’s certainly no places to sleep as the deck is flush and there’s just steel pipe and cherry wood “park benches” outboard; we issue Sunbrella cushions for socializing in the evenings in the summer, otherwise, it’s the far more comfy saloon seating. We aren’t masochists by a long shot, but if we are sailing, we are busy doing that, and that means, as has been pointed out, with both eyes and ears and even sniffing the wind to figure out if you might be close to land.

I could not agree more. I can’t count the number of times that being at least somewhat exposed to the elements has raised our situation awareness to the point that we noticed an issue that we would not have all buttoned up, well before it became a problem.

I also agree on being dressed to head out on deck at all times.

I think I may tackle the tradeoffs in the next chapter on cockpits.

Sorry, I had to take the new comment system down for a week or so. An upgrade broke it, but since we are very close to rolling out a new and much improved site design, there is not a lot of point in fixing the old one to work with the new comment system.

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Cockpit seats, how can you spend a small fortune on a boat only to discover that—from bow to stern, rail to rail, on deck or below—there's not a single comfortable seat in which to relax.

Ever a mystery is why most places to sit on a boat appear to have been designed by disciples of Frank Lloyd Wright. America’s most famous architect never saw a right angle he didn’t like—one leg perfectly horizontal; the other absolutely vertical. There are a few European boats with properly cocked seats, maybe even curved, with slanting backrests. But most are as cruel as Wright’s often-pictured dining room chairs. 

To compensate for this lack of regard for the human form, which has many nice contours in the seating region, boatowners almost invariably collect things to alleviate the suffering. It’s time to review the whole painful subject.

At Practical Sailor, we became so exercised about this topic that in the July 15, 1998 issue we published a photo essay on cockpit seating. The report went into anthropometry (the measurement of the human body) and discussed the important work done in ergonomic seating by Herman Miller (you know, the famous Eames chair?) and Sunnar Hauserman. We blasted a bunch of boats and praised a few.

Before that, we had, in the May 15, 1995 issue, taken note of a cockpit bean bag sold for $40 by Andy Peabody’s Creative Marine, Box 2120, Natchez, MS 39121, 800/824-0355. Unfortunately, the lady who sewed up Andy’s vinyl bean bags left the area and he hasn’t found a replacement. (Andy is more widely known for his Max anchors.)

In the August 1, 1996 issue, was a report on a more sophisticated bean bag, a 20″x 40″ Sunbrella rectangle that opened up double-width, made a float, and had a mesh panel for drainage and drying. Called the Aqua Lounge by its inventor, Roger Olson, it sold for $99. Despite a whole set of telephone stabs, we could not find him when we wrote this update. (Our ex-editor, Dan Spurr, tracing the path of the explorer, La Salle, used the Aqua Lounge for sleeping, floating around, etc. on a 1998 powerboat trip down the entire length of the Mississippi River. He wrote a fine book afterward, called River of Forgotten Days.)

We also pursued this comfort subject in a report in the December, 1996, issue on fold-up cockpit seats. We reviewed the above-mentioned bean bags and had four new seats to test.

One of them, a pipe-framed, foam-sleeved, two-position seat called the Backjack, is still made and sold for $49.75 by a company called B.J. Industries of Baltimore, MD. Phone: 410/686-5200. It’s sold through various online retailers. Go to www.google.com and enter keywords “backjack chair.” The Backjack is comfortable, and we’ve seen it in use on boats, but it has only a couple of positions and is a bit bulky and difficult to stow.

Then there was the Howda Seat, a canvas frame with hardwood slats that conforms to the shape of the horizontals and verticals you use during sitting. It also rolls up for easy stowage. Sold at that time by BoatU.S. for $45, it’s not in the current catalog, but is available from various other vendors, including the manufacturer, Howda Designz of Newburyport, MA. The web address is www.howda.com . It’s listed there at $42, but we note that it’s also available in the gift section at www.woodenboat.com for $39.95. (Might as well refer the business to our fellow marine scribes.)

Next came the Ridge Rest-R made by a very active outdoor sport equipment company called Cascade Designs, in Seattle, WA. A hinged envelope of a material called Staytek (a highly-tecturized woven polyester) into which were inserted slabs of open-cell polyolefin copolymer foam, it is no longer made. Cascade now makes several other seats, including a lightly padded camp chair and a stadium chair with closed-cell foam cushions sewn into ripstop nylon. Back support is adjusted by side straps. The large camp chair sells for $40; the medium for $36. Cascade’s catalog is worth a visit: www.cascadedesigns.com . Or call 800/531-9531.

The seat we said was the best of the four is still sold through marine catalogs and elsewhere. It’s the Sport-a-Seat made by the Paradise Co. of Herndon, VA. They’re at 800/870-7328, www.sportaseat.com . This is a well-padded, six-position, ratchet-hinged seat with Sunbrella-covered foam. The retail price, sometimes bested by boatshow sale prices, is serious: $95.

So, what’s new?

Now, Three More About 20 companies are known to be making seats, but few of them met the PS criteria: Padded; self-supporting backrest; foldable; stowable, and reasonably weatherproof.

One new company is HelmSense Products. Marc Cohen (he’s the whole company) has spent too many hours at the helm of boats without a backrest of any kind. (He sails a Cal 33.)

So Cohen, a 39-year-old engineer out of Tufts University in Boston, invented something different. He calls it a Helmsman’s Backrest.

Basically, it’s an 18″ x 36″ cushion attached with hook-and-loop to a thick backing plate (made of high-density polyethylene like Starboard) that accommodates (in various positions) a pair of standard powerboat radio antenna mounts, thus giving the backrest adjustability. The antenna mounts join, via two PVC thick-wall pipes, to small universal mounting brackets clamped to the stern rails. It appears that with a bit of tinkering the brackets could be deck-mounted. All the parts are shown in one of the accompanying photos.

For stowage, the rig comes off quickly via two Fastpins, leaving only the two (relatively) inconspicuous stainless steel brackets in place.

Because of tooling and fabrication costs, Cohen has to ask $219 for the kit. If it can’t be made to fit, he’ll refund the whole amount. He’s reachable at 617/794-8368 or 19 Phillips Lane, Newton, MA 02460.

The Crazy Creek fold-up chair is a sort of space-age cousin to the Howda Seat, which is an old New England design originated for circus-goers. While the Howda uses hardwood slats, the Crazy Creek seat (billed for use in the stadium, campsite, and cockpit) is built of light, high-quality fabric and closed-cell foam over padded internal struts. The sewing is first-class. Except for the struts, the Crazy Creek seat is mighty reminiscent of the Cascade Designs chairs.

Crazy Creek’s standard chair costs $38.50; the large one is $41.75. If your cockpit seats are narrow, Crazy Creek’s stadium chairs (with shallower seats), might be the ticket. All of them fold and stow beautifully.

Crazy Creek’s catalog is available by calling 800/331-0304. The web address is www.crazycreek.com .

And finally, at the Newport Boat Show a year ago, we bought a thing called a Nada-Chair®. It’s a clever strap-and-pad arrangement. A big, flat pad fits behind your lower back. Two adjustable circular straps run forward and around your knees. You lean forward slightly and cinch the straps up snugly, then lean back and find yourself well-supported and comfortable, with your leaning weight transferred to your thighs fore and aft. It has optional strap extensions that allow you to use it with your legs extended, as in the hamstring-stretching, anti-shin-splint position.

You can find out about the entire range of these Nada-Chairs (two of the models have roll-out seat pads), which sell for about $40 to $125, by contacting NadaChair at 800/722-2587. The Web address is www.nadachair.com .

Spanish-speakers will note that “nada” means “nothing” or “none,” so the NadaChair is nicely named.

The Bottom Line All of these seats are luxurious, at least when measured against a barbarous slab of cold, flat fiberglass with a low (or no) backrest.

To make the helmsman happy, Marc Cohen’s backrest, mounted with its lower edge resting on a cockpit seat cushion, would make the hours while away wondrously. It well might be left in position for a season, but demounts easily and stows fairly well. The $219 price might make you think twice, and it’s only for the helmsman.

Crazy Creek’s very light, fold-up seat is fine, too. It can be used anywhere, stows very quickly (just fold and roll), and the padding, while skinny, is still pretty comfortable. It’s really ideal for backpackers (and football/soccer fans). The same comments would probably apply to the new Cascade Designs chairs, but we can’t confirm that because we haven’t actually sat in ’em yet.

The NadaChair® is a back-support device and, because it lacks a padded seat, doesn’t actually qualify for comparison with other chairs. Still, it’s worth consideration: It’s small, very stowable, and priced fairly, at least the basic models. We found that the pressure on the knees and thighs begins to get tedious after a half-hour or so, and that it’s necessary to get up and move around a bit before harnessing up again.

The seat that, year after year, hangs in there in the marine catalogs is that nice, thick, six-position, ratchet-hinged Sport-a-Seat, which sells for $95, in six colors, no less. It’s a bit difficult to store, of course, and is pricey—but for sheer comfort and adaptability, it has yet to meet a peer.

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Hunter 23.5 stern rail seats and rudder rigging

• Thread starter HappyToBeHere
• Start date Sep 3, 2019
• Hunter Owner Forums
• Smaller Boats

HappyToBeHere

Hello all, Rookie sailor and poster here. Just bought a 1995 Hunter 23.5. Having lot of fun updating/cleaning it. A few questions: 1.) Is there any place to get stern rail seats? Is it worth it? I look at this site but they’re asking almost $2k. Does that sound right? Anyway to DIY? 2.) is there a good photo/vid showing how the rudder rigging is supposed to be run through the transom and rudder paths? I haven’t taken off the hard yet (waiting to get my outboard back). The rudder rigging that is currently on it has the line under the bolt and it looks to me like it’ll start fraying from the friction. The manual photo is too congested and unhelpful. Bonus question: do you recommend buying cockpit cushions here or DIY from sailbrite? Thanks!  

Rick Macdonald

I bought Stern rail seats for my '95 H23.5 in about 2003. I'm pretty sure the local sailboat shop ordered them from the Hunter Factory. I don't know if that is still possible. I'm not sure what I paid, but it was 16 years ago and I live in Canada and they had to be shipped from Florida. My price wouldn't mean much now. I'm writing to suggest you consider doing something I did, which was to have the lifelines modified to connect to top of the stern rail seat posts instead of the u-bolt on the side lips of the boat. That leaves a big gap between the combing wall and the upper Lifeline, so I had a short second piece run parallel to it from the stanchion to a middle point on the stern rail seat. This was all easy to do because there were little Loops already welded onto the stern-rail seats for just that purpose. If not, they make bolt-on connectors. I also had a short life line fashioned to fit between the top of the two Stern rail seats to help keep people from toppling out the back. There were Loop connectors for that as well. I can post photos tomorrow if this isn't clear. I always leave the mast crutch in place. It gives something to hang on to when you're standing by the tiller.  

I love to see some photos! Thank you  

CrispyCringle

Welcome Happytobehere, The stern rail seats are crazy expensive, IMO. I dont have them, it would be nice if I did, but not worth the cost. I did buy seat cushions from the online store here. They to were pricey, but I couldn't live without them now. They quality is excellent and Im sure they will last quite a while. They also make the seat much more comfortable and I can put a knee up on the seat without rubbing the skin off from the non-skid. As for the rigging of the rudder, I dont use it and have removed it all. I raise the rudder when not in use, as in during the week, when in its slip. The rudder is buoyant. To bring it up I loosen the nut, it floats up, and I bring it up the rest of the way with my foot. To deploy it, loosen nut and it slices right down to the lower position and I tighten it up. The rigging never worked for me. Not enough leverage. The 23.5 is a fun boat. Enjoy.  

Here are some photos. The one of the rudder lines probably doesn't help but it's hard to get a good view. I incuded the rudder lock (thanks Rick Webb!) which is one of many favorite mods. I'm glad I spent whatever I did for the stern rail seats. I wouldn't be without them. The boat was only 7 years old when I got them so I've certainly got my money's worth. I regret not buying cockpit cushions but it's too late now. My salon cushions are vinyl so I use them in the cockpit sometimes. The roller furler is a must for me.  

Attachments

Rick, I like the rudder lock. Nice idea. I have to raise mine because the marina Im at is not very calm water. No wave break, so a lot of wake action. Kind of hard on the spade. Nice corner seats. I guess someone will profit from the cushions they get from my boat when I sell it. The advantages of buying a boat with a few nice mods. Yes on the roller jib, and I'll add that I wouldnt go without some sort of tiller lock. Im partial to the Tiller Clutch myself.  

Serenity on Hudson

Have an old 23.5 that would be a good parts boat. Has cockpit cushions, stern seats, cabin tent, front hatch screens. It has been sitting in my yard collecting leaves and spiders. Needs new standing and running rigging.  

Serenity on Hudson said: Have an old 23.5 that would be a good parts boat. Has cockpit cushions, stern seats, cabin tent, front hatch screens. It has been sitting in my yard collecting leaves and spiders. Needs new standing and running rigging. Click to expand

Have to get it out of my yard so I won't get s**t if I buy another boat. Has a Honda 9.9 w/ 10 amp charger, electric start overhauled last year w/ new electronic ignition. Make an offer and the parts are all yours. It's on a trailer that has original tires from 1996. Trailer was overhauled last year with new brakes and surge unit, lights. You are half a country away though.  

Serenity on Hudson said: Have to get it out of my yard so I won't get s**t if I buy another boat. Has a Honda 9.9 w/ 10 amp charger, electric start overhauled last year w/ new electronic ignition. Make an offer and the parts are all yours. It's on a trailer that has original tires from 1996. Trailer was overhauled last year with new brakes and surge unit, lights. You are half a country away though. Click to expand

look at the classifieds here. search for Hunter 23.5 and scroll through.  

Serenity on Hudson, I’d love to come buy some parts! I’ll send you a private message. Thanks.  

HappyToBeHere said: Hello all, Rookie sailor and poster here. Just bought a 1995 Hunter 23.5. Having lot of fun updating/cleaning it. A few questions: 1.) Is there any place to get stern rail seats? Is it worth it? I look at this site but they’re asking almost $2k. Does that sound right? Anyway to DIY? 2.) is there a good photo/vid showing how the rudder rigging is supposed to be run through the transom and rudder paths? I haven’t taken off the hard yet (waiting to get my outboard back). The rudder rigging that is currently on it has the line under the bolt and it looks to me like it’ll start fraying from the friction. The manual photo is too congested and unhelpful. Bonus question: do you recommend buying cockpit cushions here or DIY from sailbrite? Thanks! Click to expand

Stern rail seats for my H30 are just $315 for the pair on SBO. They don't list them for your boat but you might ask. One of the POs of my boat already bought them . They say where they came from but I can't check until this weekend. The only thing I don't like about mine are they have to be removed if (when) I need to get in the stern lockers  

Crazy Dave Condon

call the forum store if they can get stern rail seats for your boat.  

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